As an atheist, I have to excuse myself from this topic. 🙂
The desire to believe in God is understandable. We wake up on this planet as orphans, at least with respect to the idea of God. It's natural to imagine a loving Father in heaven who is watching over us. For reasons we don't understand, he had to abandon us, but will be returning soon. Some religions even furnish a Mother in the equation.
I once heard a story, actually something David Letterman mentioned. He referred to babies in an orphanage nursery in Russia, where the little cribs could be seen gently rocking with no one attending them. The babies were rocking themselves for comfort, recreating the sensation of being in the womb.
That story always brings tears to my eyes. But it's also a profound illustration of the determination of the human spirit to find a way, to endure, to make it through any adversity.
My feeling is that we are nothing more than extraordinarily complex chemistry. "Complex" is an understatement. But that's about it.
The closest I come to believing there is something beyond the physical world is in the realm of quantum physics. That world is full of mystery and uncertainty. It makes me question almost everything I think I know to be true... or untrue.
I don't believe in god. I was in 5th grade when I learned about the Holocaust and asked my deeply religious father how god could allow six million Jews to be annihilated and he had no answer and was disgusted that I even asked the question. That closed the door on believing in god.
I'm an atheist, slipping into anti-theism on occasion so...
I view any god as an excuse for whatever behaviour the believer wants; think gay people are icky? Well so does their god! You're a guy who is afraid he is going to be aroused by transgender women? God disapproves too! You're comfortable with LGBTQ+ people? God loves everyone!
This is outside what you asked but my reading this year has a trilogy of religious books in it: "God: The Science The Evidence" "How We ruined God", and lastly "Gospel of Lies".
The first is a bad apologetics book that had the feeling of a Young Earth Creationist book, it tried to make a dichotomy of the creation of the universe. The second was not a critique of a god as such but more of a critique of religion, the author views God as Love. Lastly, Gospel of Lies was written by the daughter of an evangelical minister who advised your president in his first term. She is an atheist who uses her life and the Christian Bible to talk about how religion is wrong and it's doubtful there is a God.
I don't think I can say "We *need* 'God'" per se. As one born and raised (and still living) in the heart of the United States, the first thing comes to mind hearing "God" is the Western, Christian notion of a deity, but in my 53 years I've come to believe that it's nothing more than local bias, or perhaps even hubris, that perpetuates the idea of "the one true God."
I think it's the height of arrogance to dismiss the gods of other world religions or even pantheons from around the globe. That's just how it feels to me, living in the throes of a hostile takeover of our country and government by Evangelical Christians.
I've been to church, bible study, youth group, been Born Again, and while I certainly question our origins, our purpose on this planet, the very (fragile) physical nature of our human bodies, I don't believe I require the answer to be any one single entity, or *any* ENTITY for that matter. It's not a need, it's something that might make everything feel more sensical, perhaps, but I struggle with the idea of an omnipotent being having created everything and who continues to unleash death and destruction on "his people."
Now I'm rambling, but it's a very abstruse concept for me. Thanks for introducing the conversation!
I think that we need a concept of something beyond ourselves. For me that has become a sense of oneness with existence. It is the loss of the boundaries of myself and a merging. Admittedly, it is aspirational. If it feels better for someone to personify it that's fine but I feel like it has the potential to create separateness. Separateness between god and person. Separateness between gods. Separateness between conscious entities.
I’m gonna split this one down the middle: We don’t have to reject “God” entirely, but we also don’t need it as the only acceptable name for the unprovable aspects of the universe.
I write a lot about Scripture, so I say “God” quite a bit, but I’d also use “the numinous” in certain circumstances, or “the divine” when I feel like meeting theists more than halfway. 🙂
God, defined by many, many different ways. Yet, each society has always wondered our origin, goal and purpose. The Existence of a "god" gives us a path, without it, we make it up and typically screw it up. This does not mean that by acknowledging a creator turns people into saints. Many have used "god" for control, enslavement and oppression. None of that negates the purpose and reality of a Creator.
Each of us know there is a higher being, to believe otherwise believes that creation created itself. So we are stuck, between doubts, denial and reality causing us to live lives that we may not want because we have our inner desires that tend to guide our lives instead of accepting our destiny. Life, Death and whatever happens afterwards.
Since we are only here for a minute, yet dead for eternity, maybe we need to focus on the eternal goals instead of the temporal
For some people, the universe makes no sense without God. For some people, the notion of God makes no sense. (Similarly, if you want to start a knock-down, drag-out fight in a group of mixed Buddhists, ask “Is reincarnation literally real?” and watch the fur fly amongst a bunch of people who are supposedly devoted to nonattachment. Last time it happened I tried dropping in some Zen to calm things down and was completely ignored.) I think it’s better to talk about our individual experience of the numinous, of the re-connecting that is the literal meaning of “religion”, than to try to make objective assertions about things that can only be subjectively experienced.
I think this is such an interesting question. The Christian concept of god is what turns me completely off of religion. The concept of worshipping a single entity is so weird and off putting. But I do believe in the Christian principles of kindness and love above all else and helping those in need (and completely disagree with any homophobia, misogyny, etc.) I think “God” is just an organizing concept for the human mind that needs organization to understand how the world works. I’m completely fine with not knowing what’s going on beyond this world. It’s none of my business until it’s time for me to find out!!
I'll come at this one from the standpoint of a physicist: when we compute the size of the universe using all we currently believe to be true (big bang, particle physics, etc.) it is pretty small from an information theoretic perspective. We live in a small place. Life, and consciousness, is absolutely huge compared to the universe based on entropic calculations. Why is this? The answer is called "God". It is the creative power of the universe, and you can bask in many versions of this amazement, even if you want to stick to math the amazing fact of incompleteness is there. At the end of the math lies the provable math theorem that the universe contains true things that math and physics cannot prove are true. "Thanks be to God!" or if you prefer, Q.E.D. Squabbling about linguistic or story-telling style in the face of these facts misses the point.
So, then, YES, you need "God" as a concept to represent the unprovable (which, we can prove that we require to fully understand the universe). You can play dress-up and put this in whatever image makes you feel good!
This one is straightforward for me. “God” didn’t create man.
Man created “god” for the purpose of explaining the existence of the unknown (and unknowable), thereby allowing authority figures to control the masses through fear and the consequences of retribution from a vengeful “god.”
Hope, love, empathy and spirit reside within and among each of us. There is no omnipotent externality here, and none has ever been necessary for emotional fulfillment.
As an atheist, I have to excuse myself from this topic. 🙂
The desire to believe in God is understandable. We wake up on this planet as orphans, at least with respect to the idea of God. It's natural to imagine a loving Father in heaven who is watching over us. For reasons we don't understand, he had to abandon us, but will be returning soon. Some religions even furnish a Mother in the equation.
I once heard a story, actually something David Letterman mentioned. He referred to babies in an orphanage nursery in Russia, where the little cribs could be seen gently rocking with no one attending them. The babies were rocking themselves for comfort, recreating the sensation of being in the womb.
That story always brings tears to my eyes. But it's also a profound illustration of the determination of the human spirit to find a way, to endure, to make it through any adversity.
My feeling is that we are nothing more than extraordinarily complex chemistry. "Complex" is an understatement. But that's about it.
The closest I come to believing there is something beyond the physical world is in the realm of quantum physics. That world is full of mystery and uncertainty. It makes me question almost everything I think I know to be true... or untrue.
I don't believe in god. I was in 5th grade when I learned about the Holocaust and asked my deeply religious father how god could allow six million Jews to be annihilated and he had no answer and was disgusted that I even asked the question. That closed the door on believing in god.
I'm an atheist, slipping into anti-theism on occasion so...
I view any god as an excuse for whatever behaviour the believer wants; think gay people are icky? Well so does their god! You're a guy who is afraid he is going to be aroused by transgender women? God disapproves too! You're comfortable with LGBTQ+ people? God loves everyone!
This is outside what you asked but my reading this year has a trilogy of religious books in it: "God: The Science The Evidence" "How We ruined God", and lastly "Gospel of Lies".
The first is a bad apologetics book that had the feeling of a Young Earth Creationist book, it tried to make a dichotomy of the creation of the universe. The second was not a critique of a god as such but more of a critique of religion, the author views God as Love. Lastly, Gospel of Lies was written by the daughter of an evangelical minister who advised your president in his first term. She is an atheist who uses her life and the Christian Bible to talk about how religion is wrong and it's doubtful there is a God.
Well that was longer than I expected.
I don't think I can say "We *need* 'God'" per se. As one born and raised (and still living) in the heart of the United States, the first thing comes to mind hearing "God" is the Western, Christian notion of a deity, but in my 53 years I've come to believe that it's nothing more than local bias, or perhaps even hubris, that perpetuates the idea of "the one true God."
I think it's the height of arrogance to dismiss the gods of other world religions or even pantheons from around the globe. That's just how it feels to me, living in the throes of a hostile takeover of our country and government by Evangelical Christians.
I've been to church, bible study, youth group, been Born Again, and while I certainly question our origins, our purpose on this planet, the very (fragile) physical nature of our human bodies, I don't believe I require the answer to be any one single entity, or *any* ENTITY for that matter. It's not a need, it's something that might make everything feel more sensical, perhaps, but I struggle with the idea of an omnipotent being having created everything and who continues to unleash death and destruction on "his people."
Now I'm rambling, but it's a very abstruse concept for me. Thanks for introducing the conversation!
I think that we need a concept of something beyond ourselves. For me that has become a sense of oneness with existence. It is the loss of the boundaries of myself and a merging. Admittedly, it is aspirational. If it feels better for someone to personify it that's fine but I feel like it has the potential to create separateness. Separateness between god and person. Separateness between gods. Separateness between conscious entities.
GOD is LOVE
GOD IS SOURCE
GOD is SPIRIT
I’m gonna split this one down the middle: We don’t have to reject “God” entirely, but we also don’t need it as the only acceptable name for the unprovable aspects of the universe.
I write a lot about Scripture, so I say “God” quite a bit, but I’d also use “the numinous” in certain circumstances, or “the divine” when I feel like meeting theists more than halfway. 🙂
God, defined by many, many different ways. Yet, each society has always wondered our origin, goal and purpose. The Existence of a "god" gives us a path, without it, we make it up and typically screw it up. This does not mean that by acknowledging a creator turns people into saints. Many have used "god" for control, enslavement and oppression. None of that negates the purpose and reality of a Creator.
Each of us know there is a higher being, to believe otherwise believes that creation created itself. So we are stuck, between doubts, denial and reality causing us to live lives that we may not want because we have our inner desires that tend to guide our lives instead of accepting our destiny. Life, Death and whatever happens afterwards.
Since we are only here for a minute, yet dead for eternity, maybe we need to focus on the eternal goals instead of the temporal
For some people, the universe makes no sense without God. For some people, the notion of God makes no sense. (Similarly, if you want to start a knock-down, drag-out fight in a group of mixed Buddhists, ask “Is reincarnation literally real?” and watch the fur fly amongst a bunch of people who are supposedly devoted to nonattachment. Last time it happened I tried dropping in some Zen to calm things down and was completely ignored.) I think it’s better to talk about our individual experience of the numinous, of the re-connecting that is the literal meaning of “religion”, than to try to make objective assertions about things that can only be subjectively experienced.
I think this is such an interesting question. The Christian concept of god is what turns me completely off of religion. The concept of worshipping a single entity is so weird and off putting. But I do believe in the Christian principles of kindness and love above all else and helping those in need (and completely disagree with any homophobia, misogyny, etc.) I think “God” is just an organizing concept for the human mind that needs organization to understand how the world works. I’m completely fine with not knowing what’s going on beyond this world. It’s none of my business until it’s time for me to find out!!
I just finished Dr Pallas book "We have ruined God", she has a similar take to you.
I'll come at this one from the standpoint of a physicist: when we compute the size of the universe using all we currently believe to be true (big bang, particle physics, etc.) it is pretty small from an information theoretic perspective. We live in a small place. Life, and consciousness, is absolutely huge compared to the universe based on entropic calculations. Why is this? The answer is called "God". It is the creative power of the universe, and you can bask in many versions of this amazement, even if you want to stick to math the amazing fact of incompleteness is there. At the end of the math lies the provable math theorem that the universe contains true things that math and physics cannot prove are true. "Thanks be to God!" or if you prefer, Q.E.D. Squabbling about linguistic or story-telling style in the face of these facts misses the point.
So, then, YES, you need "God" as a concept to represent the unprovable (which, we can prove that we require to fully understand the universe). You can play dress-up and put this in whatever image makes you feel good!
This one is straightforward for me. “God” didn’t create man.
Man created “god” for the purpose of explaining the existence of the unknown (and unknowable), thereby allowing authority figures to control the masses through fear and the consequences of retribution from a vengeful “god.”
Hope, love, empathy and spirit reside within and among each of us. There is no omnipotent externality here, and none has ever been necessary for emotional fulfillment.